THIS PAGE GETS A LOT OF HITS, SO WE'VE ADDED MORE INFO ...
Buying Vinyl today, you really do need to be sure you are actually buying the Original if you are paying a price that the Original would command. The amount of genuine reissues on different labels and numbers is also mixed with a large amount of "repros" that are now over 30 years old looking very similar to the real item, which are unlicensed bootlegs. Also the amount of new Bootleg copies of rare 45s available seems to grow every week & the copyright owners aren't doing anything about it, so more are to come from varied sources. To the experienced buyer these stand out obviously as "repros" but you have to learn to spot real from repro without wasting money when other bids may hint at an item being more than it is, and the Sheep Effect gains more bidders who think if others bid it must be right. Those other bidders may not really exist however.
The record companies have no interest in reissuing these items to such a small market, as in under 1000 copies, so the bootleggers take over and as long as buyers know what they are, there should be no problem. Been going on since the 70s as Record Collecting grew & even decades before as some tried to take sales away from new product with odd bootlegs. You can read more about that on the Web no doubt. Ebay sellers who from their feedback are clearly not dealers are getting £20-70+ for these early 70s R&B and Rock & Roll bootlegs from buyers unaware of what they are really buying. Of course, some reissues do make a collectors price and are known as such and openly sold as re-issues, repros, 2nd issues or whatever term to describe unofficial product that is not "the real deal". Read on & learn how not to be a sucker like others sadly get caught.
THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN IS BY COMPARISON See & handle a lot of real original records. Records aren't as around 'on the street' as much as they used to be, the easiest place is likely a car boot sale just to find some junk 45s to learn from. A typical rare item, eg a £300 50s London was issued amid Pat Boone records or a Major Lance Columbia was amid Ken Dodd 45s, so buy a cheap handful of those & see what they are like. But you're not going to find many pre 1956 Sun 45s to compare your Elvis too & confusingly each one looks different & had variations in pressing! 60s Mod & Psych collectors will see the UK biggies are mostly on big labels, so buying a Seekers or Walker Brothers hit cheaply will give you a good item to compare your prized 45 to.
The problem for buyers is those new "repros". They were and are still usually openly sold as repros when new to those who are into the music styles. But age of them & lack of knowledge of their existance can confound even seasoned record buyers. The early repros from the early 70s of Rock & Roll & Doowop may now be aged looking as nearly 40 years old when the original is just 50 years old. But a repro is worth a fiver unless there is demand for it & it's an early one. Big profits too: costs under £1 each to press a few hundred copies with no royalties to pay. You as the buyer will likely get stung by buying a repro at some time, especially the Northern Soul scene where 95% of copies of Gloria Jones 'Tainted Love' (origs are on styrene with black labels & a Delta number) and also Coasters 'Crazy Baby' (origs always have the AT notation on the vinyl & can be either thick vinyl or styrene). But if you are happy with a repro, and most are of good sound quality, then don't just avoid them because they are unofficial. The LP market is similar, but as card covers are involved, the cheaper quality & lack of age smell on a supposed 30+ year old LP gives them away. There is even a strange USA-looking repro of a UK London Skyliners track, which must be from 1979 when Art Garfunkel had a hit with 'Since I Don't Have You'. Other odd USA-looking repros of UK items are the Davy Jones & King Bees Vocalion & oddly the Southlanders on Decca.
We know UK & USA vinyl exceedingly well & can spot reissues & later pressings with ease. We collected USA vinyl in several genres so are aware of those that got reissued or bootlegged.
Some records issued in the 1950s-60s were still on catalog until the early 90s!
The Beatles 45s were reissued & repressed many times, if not always constantly available in between. These records were repressed with the style of label etc that was the standard at the time of repress. A 4th pressing of an LP is often sold as an Original, just like in books certain 1940s Annuals with ISBN codes are sold as originals, but ISBN codes only began in 1966. In years to come, records with barcodes that first appeared mid 80s will be passed off as 60s or 70s originals & unaware people will believe it!
Also, any seller raving about "First Pressing" of a record that had no other different pressing or even says "Rare Deleted" is playing the ebay BS game. Not even the Beatles singles can be bought on 7" vinyl today from a record shop, they were last issued in the early 90s. Therefore any record is Deleted as you cannot find it in it's original format with the same catalog number. You may find a CD or MP3 download of it.
If you want any help identifying if your suspicious buy is real or not be it a dodgy demo or a questionable US 45, we'll give our opinion if your pictures & details are good, but only if you've bought from us!
To see thousands of original records, simply browse our AZ BY LABEL sections and see a selection of a particular label as time passes by, eg a 1954 Decca pressed 45 looks different to a 1962 one but there are similarities. That sounds the easy way to see original vinyl without handling it & our photos of records are done without sleeves so you will always see the serrated label edge, label contours, centre cut-out shapes and sometimes the style of matrix number shows if the position to the label gets it showing in the shot.
HINTS TO HELP SPOT REISSUES REPROS & BOOTLEGS
like any sweeping statements there will be exceptions, but this will help weed out fake 45s & even LPs.
The biggest problem with this is the fact "1st pressing" is used at random to describe any record some amateur has: eg 1954 London Slim Whitman on round centre with a silver top could be a 6th pressing, yet it'll still be called a "rare 1st pressing". Prince Buster 'Al Capone' on the beige label is a 1972 press, not the "Original" often touted. Most issues are on dark blue, but with it being a 1965 record belatedly becoming a chart hit in 1967, only an expert can pick out the 1st 1965 press from the 1967 one! Similar with The Skatalites 'Guns Of Navarone'.
The LP market is much worse, such minutae like EMI box on certain LPs means treasure or tenner. Books, littered with inaccuracies, are being accepted as the truth & making a vibrant market into a confused one. To see what should be the first press is easy with 45s as the label can easily be seen, but with LPs, you maybe only see the cover, glared out with a bad flash photo. Compare & Contrast is the key.
Barcodes were never used before 1983 on records. Fax numbers were new in the 1980s & website names in the later 1990s.
Modern 1990s Jamaican pressings of classic Studio One tracks look aged as they are poorly pressed on old equipment. The 'noise' on these repressings is actually from using the corroded copper plates raw, rather than preparing them first. The vinyl itself is not the noisy part, the noise is gaps in the record surface the verdigris (green copper rust) that the humidity creates on the copper.
The amount of later Reggae Jamaican pressings being stated to be original is alarming! A crisp yellow label pressing with no printed record number of a 1966 track, despite looking old & having a song on the B side, not just a 'Version', is actually a mid-late 1970s press. Nearly any pre 1970 record with 'Version' or 'Dub' on the B side will not be a 1960s original, these started in 1969 with Studio One. Early 'Versions' as found on 1970-71 UK issues are usually titled longer names to hide their 'Version' status, or instrumental mix as they are to non-reggaeites. Having said that, we found a mint 'Skaravan' Top Deck with a 70s JA ink Shop Rubber Stamp on it amid a batch of 70s reissues, but it was actually a £400 original!
To say all USA records with Stamped Matrix Numbers are original is wrong, as is saying all ZTSP with handwritten ones are fake. Early 50s RCA promos had handwritten matrixes whist the issues had stamped ones. USA Columbia pressed vinyl or styrene have been seen with handwritten matrices. 70s Northern Soul repros of Lorenzo Manley and Fuller Brothers with stamped matrices but poor sound when compared to the originals shows they are duds, but you won't read that anywhere else. The Lorenzo one cut lower & much duller sounding is always passed off as an original!
Similarly the presence of the Serrated Edge to the Label doesn't always mean the same either! This serrated 'grip' edge began on UK vinyl in early 1957 because popular & cheap record players at the time until the mid 80s were autochangers where you stacked up records & played up to 8 records in one go, like a jukebox. From Dansettes to flimsy BSR turntables, the autochanger was rife. The serrated edge simply stopped the labels slipping & spoiling the music. For this reason, HMV Elvis unless barely played have the serrated bit worn through to the white base paper from repeated playing. To confuse the issue, you find some USA records with serrated edges, not many, but look at USA Capitol pressings from 1968-70s & they have this & so do a few originally USA-only Northern Soul repros pressed in the UK in the 70s, eg the Tommy Navarro one. Several other countries adopted the serrated edge, from Singapore and Holland to India. Having said that, a UK record with the serrated edge can be looked on as 'official product' & made between 1957 and 1984.
The presence of Made In Great Britain or not is no clue to originality as many UK pressings are only recognisable as UK pressings by other features as often no country is stated. Non UK pressed repros can still copy this text making confusion.
Laminated Sleeves is more for LP and EP buyers. Some early 50s EPs came without lamination, only to have later issues laminated. Lamination is a thin layer of plastic film attached permanently to usually only the front of a record sleeve to protect it. As years age the earliest ones, the glue has gone hard & the lamination starts to crack & peel. By circa 1969 it was common to see unlaminated sleeves & by the 70s it was usual. See all the paper tears top right corner from careless sticker removal! Some earlier unlaminated UK ones had an odd varnish type covering, meaning if you remove dry tape marks with meths, off comes the printing too! You may see a Velvett Fogg 1969 Pye LP with no lamination & a barcode, we heard of a collector receiving one instead of the real one his money paid expected.
Flipback Sleeves. This one relates to LPs mainly. Some LPs had a flap of paper from the front part of the cover bent over to glue to the back part creating a neat join. These are called flipback sleeves. The Decca pressed ones to about 1961 had a curved section cut out, to accomadate the shape of the vinyl put in the cover. After that it was just a plain strip. By 1964-65 Decca pressings could have either a flipback or not & randomly done so, neither early or late unless other factors showed otherwise. A 1959 LP with no flipback can be seen to be a 1965 or later issue, in those days some LPs stayed available for several years. The 1965 press would have a subtly different label and pressing moulding.
BIEM/NCB we've seen as a way to show the BS ebay seller "had a rare export copy" & prices it to the unaware. Again look at a large amount of UK vinyl covering 50s to 70s, and you'll see many EMI & Decca pressed records often showing these letters. All it means is the record "could" be exported to eg Holland & be official product, based on specific copyright terms. The fact it was sold in the UK means it's not a proper Export, only those with alternate catalog numbers or different B sides are proper exports. Cliff's "Gee Whizz It's You" was an export issue, as the catalog number shows, but it was also sold in the UK as it made the top 10, despite not being an official UK release.
All UK 45s from 1953 to 1980s have push out or solid centres with small LP-size centre holes, obvious exceptions are 1953 EMI, 1967-73 Polydor & early 50s Decca exports, or those 1967 on that have been 'dinked' for a jukebox, as they were made with a solid centre: either roughly by a hand tool or by a machine. UK record centres: Decca used a triangle centre from 1954 to 1960. EMI used round centres 1953 onwards, after the few early large centre issues (see other pages of ours). All other labels used a 3-prong or 4-prong round centre that could be removed for jukeboxes or the early USA record players. There are also the "jigsaw" removable-replaceable centres too, see another page of ours - '50s Odd Centres'. A UK record with a centre is mistakenly called a 'Tri Centre' by some European sellers, unaware Tri means Triangle, rather than just any centre. A restuck centre, often found with Tri Centres is only worth the same as a NO CENTRE record (or less if it was messily glued), ie 25%-75% of the with-centre copy. Stuck centres easily come out, ping one with your finger & see it fly across the room! Then put an adaptor in instead.
Conversely, a USA record with a solid centre maybe viewed with suspicion, as the general style of centre is the large jukebox middle. Not so, USA Columbia introduced a failed attempt to compete with RCA's 45rpm with their 33rpm 7", see the Tri Centres page for photos. Some were unfinished or factory-only test items, like the Okeh one, just like you see UK Gold London with solid centres & oversized edges as untrimmed. You still see UK sellers saying a USA record is a NOC or 'no original centre', clearly unaware of the history of the 45. The 33rpm Jukebox single from the early 60s with or without the thick card & mini cover slicks is another example. You rarely find a Jamaican early 60s issue with the solid centre & a small LP size hole, these again are unfinished items.
The presence of a proper 3 or 4 prong centre that is "real", not just a printed part of the label design, means it is a genuine item, though it may be a much later pressing. Cutting out the area to make the centre a push-out one appears to be very expensive, so bootleggers don't bother. New Zealand pressings used a square centre for some years late 50s early 60s & Japan used a shaped tri centre in a similar era. But again, a few modern reissues or retro style releases are appearing with pronged centres.
Sound Quality of a proper released record will be of some hifi quality. If it is boomy with little crispness like USA bootlegs of 50s music in the 70s taken from 78s, that's a big giveaway. Today vinyl repros get the noise digitally reduced. Having heard some, as always the amateur has gone too far with the noise reduction settings & lost the ambience from the music, making the music sound very unnatural. Mastering records listening through 6" speakers is a fool's game. A lot of the recent Bootleg 45s are mastered much lower than the original 45.
Delta matrix numbers, eg ^56778 on USA vinyl continued into the 70s, so if your 50s/60s music record has one over approx 90000 then it's a 70s repro. Some originals were pressed at Monarch in the USA in the 60s & the repro/bootlegs were made there too years later. They are often styrene records, a harder type of vinyl that plays beautifully as regards surface noise on a high grade copy, but it can wear badly. Early Delta numbers turn up on records 1954-55 and on vinyl. Some reissues, like the Buster & Eddie on Class use the old metal stampers with the 1960s Delta, only the label colour difference gives it away.
Blurred labels are scans or photocopies, though today's printing techniques can be very advanced. Some recreate the typeface in a modern similar font and others add numbers or wording to the original scanned design which helps show the reissue from the real.
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It appears we must add that the image of the original is scanned or photocopied then printed on typical paper & ink. Photocopy paper is dust that is heat bonded and is never used raw. Only the source image is derived from a photo, scan or photocopy.
The Colour of the Paper used can be a good clue too, as can the texture. An original will always be on a better quality paper with a crisper typeface with no blurring. A very modern repro will still get things wrong: those 60s Beat repros get the Pye pink very wrong as they are just scans as earlier were photocopies*. Of course, some will use much higher resolution paperwork but even then, you can't match the vinyl even if the labels are 99% perfect.
Label Pressed with the Vinyl or Stuck on After? The usual way for a UK 45 to have it's label applied is having it pressed into the vinyl when made. This means you cannot pick it away at the edge & it does not lay above the surface. Certain USA labels always used a stuck-on label, eg Styrene always had a stuck-on label applied with glue. Later Styrene pressings had ink printed directly onto the blank label are with no paper. A basic rule is a Vinyl pressed record (ignoring acetates) will have a pressed-on label. Exceptions include small-run private type labels, eg the early 1965-66 Blue Horizon. Any Decca sporting a stuck-on Demo label is highly likely to be fake, although again some exceptions regarding test pressings allowed these fakes to get accepted. Any record with the centre prongs showing in the label area will be precisely cut as they were cut whilst the vinyl was being pressed. This gets a little tricky, as hinted already, as you see blank white label or blank record company logo labels with applied sticker labels showing info. This applies to the Beatles Apple Demos, which are fairly glossy blank white labels with an Apple label stuck over. You can find standard stock copies of a wide range of labels with added Emidisc or similar labels, these are genuine, but the ease of adding such should not make them hugely valuable, more like a nice issue defaced! Another exception is MGM by 1967 it became independently pressed in the UK (by EMI still, in plain white sleeves), the Demos here are plain white with basic details printed on the labels, but oddly a more typical pink MGM demo label stuck over! Confusing is the word.
Modern Fonts used is a vague one, though see a Sun 45 with a too-modern looking crisp font it's a modern (80s on) repro. Modern Soul repros make little attempt to copy the original label. Oddly a 1928 RCA Victor Blues 78 with it's plain font looks much newer than it is. Overall, experience is what gets you picking original from repro.
Beware Fake Sample "Demo" Stickers added to ordinary records, or even old ones added to repro ones! Even old ones soaked from cheapo 45s to add onto a Beatles makes a £5 record a £40 one. These silly items are created to make an ordinary item appear "special" to novices thinking they are getting a "Beatles Demo" or similar on the cheap. Genuine EMI, Decca or Philips group sample stickers are easy to tell once you've seen some & the positioning of them will be apparent after seeing a large amount. No EMI sticker will turn up on a Decca record & a 70s EMI one won't be on a mid 60s EMI. It's a gummed label like a stamp. It can be used to cover a tear or writing explaining the odd positions you see them "put" in. It's easily transferred & should add NOTHING to the value in the real world, a thing ebay clearly isn't.
A Sample sticker or Stamp is NOT a proper Demo. It's a Factory Test Sample or a cheap way of doing a Promo. Only a clearly different label design maybe in White with a big A and a Release Date denotes a proper Demo. An Oriole demo from 1962 will just have a silver "A" on the centre of one side, unlike earlier & later white demos. A UK Sue 45 with a Black rectangle is NOT a Demo, all the rectangle does is cover "Sue Records USA" on 45s 'licensed' from other labels. If you still think it is, then no-one will mind charging you extra!
More fakes: fake '60s' acetates, faked items using old blank labels from 1940s 78 acetates stuck onto a Beatles record & some fool pays £150 for it. Computer printed "demo" labels stuck onto regular issues and badly cut out around the centre pushout. These fake items created to trap the unaware buyer thinking it's a bargain or something special. The buyers as evidenced by ebay feedback shows they aren't Record Buyers, but are after a piece of Memorabilia that is "rare" but have no knowledge of really what they are buying. The rule here is it's not worth anything more than a standard copy if it basically looks like a standard copy. Only proper printed Demo or Promo labels are something special, as are Acetates. An oddity is with some Australian promos: the added-on Demo sticker is stuck on the label BEFORE pressing. Removal or falling-off results in a dip in the vinyl as the sticker was originally level with the rest of the label, rather than raised as a later added one would be.
Heavily Cut Record Grooves is another one to look out for. Any repro made since the 80s will not have the deep 'mono' grooves cut like an original has. 70s repros still used older machinery so other signs must be checked.
Condition of the Vinyl is not too helpful, those unplayed 50s Savoy stock look too new but are real early pressings, as do unplayed boxes of UK Blue Beat Wynonie Harris EPs. Similarly a scuffy or scratched disc with a worn label may easily be a repro aged up, but for it to 'sell' only big ££ items would be aged up.
Stereo added to a label of older music often means a 70s press especially if the music is playing in Mono, look at your yellow Epic copy of Vibrations 'Cause You're Mine' with Stereo added & then you'll see it's an early 70s press, not the 1969 one which had narrower & smaller typeface! Stereo 45s do exist from 1958, but will be easily proved originals from other factors.
Thickness of Vinyl is of no use to decide if real or not, ignore those tedious ebay BS dealers saying 'original thick vinyl'. A 1949 USA RCA 45 is on thin vinyl as is a 1956 one. A UK 1957 RCA is on thicker vinyl. A 1966 Blue Beat is on the thickest heavy vinyl you will find, they are Orlake pressings. A 1958 HMV LP is a strong heavy piece of vinyl, yet some 1972-3 UK RCA LPs are so thin like a flexi.
A thick heavy record with a silvery bit seen through the centre is an Acetate. Acetates can be genuine factory items with rare tracks, or especially in the early days of the Northern Soul scene, just a privately cut track for DJ use & of no real value as a genuine studio acetate can have. Be aware a 60s track with felt tip pen writing is not an old one! Handwritten biro, or ink on the earlier ones are likely to be genuine. An acetate with a purple edge showing is not a 1960s one.
For the risk of getting silly, the Smell of Vinyl can be a clue, but be aware how many smokers there were until recent years. A smoky smelling record may not be that old, but to tell if Sleeves are old, if they smell musty that is a clue of age, but not a sure one. If the vinyl has an obvious new plastic smell or a repro sleeve lacks crispness in the printing but gives you a paper cut it is likely a modern one. Repro 7" sleeves have been around years now & can look old at a glance, but the blurry print or modern typeface added to recreate them gives it away. They often come apart as the seams are poorly glued.
One funny one we saw on typing this was a UK Billy Fury "Export" EP, the 'Play It Cool' one. The catalog number of both as RC shows is identical, yet the cover is the clear steep difference in value. Now a seller had a "repro" cover and offered the standard record inside it. The sleeve remember was a repro & of no collector value. Yet excited (foolish) ebayers paid £50 for it? Eh? Duh more like. £10 the record & £40 for a repro sleeve. Keeps us in the know smiling!
More Silly Ebayers: Special AKA Gangsters was a huge hit & rightly so. The majority are on paper labels, the only rarity is the handstamped sleeve, which has been repro'd and also the silver ink later 1980 press label for completists. The RC TT1-3 being rare is nonsense, the majority have this, so a £6 record in reality. The first pressings are by Rough Trade via CBS and you'll find EMI & Pye contract pressings too as demand was high. Now here's the thing: Pye vinyl was black in normal light, but from 1972-1980ish some held up to a light it shines varied shades of red. Hold it up to the light & black vinyl becomes red. BFD. So the silly seller who backlit his to make the pic look fully red will have a buyer expecting it to look red in daylight, as red vinyl suggests. In reality, the Pye contract is more common than the EMI & one seller tried a similar game for months to get £20 for his to no avail.
How to spot Fake MP3 Downloads. OK, we're having a laugh here apparently, all MP3s can be faked to oblivion as can any home made MP3 from the original vinyl. A MP3 looks like nothing, as nothing it is, it is virtual & if your hard drive, iPod or dongle with the track on dies, so does the download! How silly you were not to keep 25 backups! But there really are fake MP3 downloads hiding as zip files with nasty .exe viruses in them on these peer to peer sites, so all here is not in vain.
Here is a very advanced case of spotting the Repro from the Real one. One was issued in 1952 and is the Original. One is a repro from the early 1970s. Both at first glance look exactly the same. But look closer: the typeface on one is crisper than the other, even in this old pic of ours from 2003 when we had both copies. The typeface used on the 12110 number is the most distinctly different, the rest is very very similar. One has a dull label, the other a semi-glossy one. On playing one is is louder cut but lacking a certain hifi quality, so therefore the other is cut quieter with a cleaner sound but sounds about as 'surface noisy' as the other. One has 'CS' added after it's matrix number of 'Federal 12110' whereas the other has something like 45-F128-1 only.
So which one is the real one? Side by side both 45s on a desk, you can tell the left one has the original look and the right one is a very good copy. 'CS' on the right one means 'Collectors Series', they weren't out to deceive, but who knows what CS means 30+ years on? The left one with the 45-F128-1 heavily etched matches similar Federal-King product. Buy some cheap pop items to see what real ones look like, nobody made repros of dull pop 45s. The sharper label is the repro, it is of good quality & well typeset. Many repros are photocopies* or scans of the original labels and of old photocopy* quality we saw before computers took off in the late 1990s.
Those UK 60s mod beat psych repros.. are everywhere and "they" are constantly repressing them, now in better vinyl quality & occasionally adding more titles, the latest batch are Hot USA R&B 45s from around 1958. The Reggae ones were first around over 12 years ago in the London Collector shops. Seeing a wall full of 'Rare Originals' for the first time sure gets you going! Most are openly sold as repros for £6 so no problem really for buyers. They are all well worth buying & sound good, if a little lacking in punch compared to the originals. We've had the lot to keep the music digitally from the vinyl if we'd not had the original copy.
But some sellers are sneakily adding a record centre & put in an old sleeve and quietly list them on ebay, with the old cliche about being given some records & not knowing much about them, but without actually saying they are 'new' or 'repro' as they apparently don't know. Inexperienced buyer sees the Dollar signs (that was originated in a Tom & Jerry 1940s cartoon) and believing they are getting a huge bargain keep bidding. The more bidders the item gets, the 'sheep' effect comes in, ie they think it's right so it must be! Ending up paying £30 or more for the repro is the outcome. It's up to the buyer to understand what they are buying & watch out.
These repros were purposely pressed with large centres to avoid this and the lack of UK serrated label edge grip for autochangers gives it away. UK pressed vinyl from 1956-57 until the mid 1980s had this label grip as the cheap autochanger where you stacked a pile of records to play in one go, mechanics willing of course. They also all have scratched matrix details & titles scratched in the matrix are to make it appear more obvious it's a repro. The side effect of this is buyers now sadly doubt the originals to be originals, even with proper centres if not too well photoed. These buyers need to wise up and learn their subject, these repros should make the originals wider known & more wanted. We try our best with big clear 2 side photos and with these photos you can tell it's a real one as our records are photoed out of sleeve.
As a footnote, there is a seller on ebay selling made-up Gold discs of the popular artists from then to now. You buy them and frame them to put on the wall & be amazed and lost in a awestruck trance at their fake tacky beauty. At £25 a pop he's raking it in! But the labels he uses are awful, wrong types, wrong everything. It does show non-Collectors want records as Memorabilia and this is a cheap way to buy a Gold Disc we suppose.
