TODAY's RECORD SCENE: RECORD BUYING IS CHANGING
"Who'd actually want to buy it today?" is a question that may now apply to a lot of things once considered collectable. Those who appreciated these collectable things to create today's market are becoming victims of time but younger people will come to appreciate these things too 'we hope', but sorting and rating them in a different way to how the older owners did. No guarantees that they will like what you do and the things you appreciated & rated as collectable may go unloved and unwanted by younger generations.
Sadly you hear this a lot on 'Dickinson's Real Deal' as the owner's 30-something offspring don't care for Grandad's old medals. Those medals gave much importance to those directly related to them, but that time has passed now. 'Selfish buggers' you may think, on selling up so mercilessly, but why does anyone have to keep a thing they inherited from a family member if they don't like it or have any attachment to it? But all this careless selling off may be regretted, at 30 many are living the 'kids & families' life and have little time for being sentimental. But when they are older & have more time they will remember those things dismissed & sold off and then regret it knowing it's gone. Look on TV, most people in Auction rooms are grey. Most collectors are 40-65 and you still see liberated 80 year olds buying still, where many are 'downsizing' or did so years ago.
The typist has already re-found as much of their pre teen youth items and the memory was good enough to even find obscure books read whilst eating breakfast in Junior School. Best to keep EVERYTHING you really liked at anytime in your younger life & never have to rebuy it. Odd how things pan out, you throw liked things away after turning against them and then want them again. Some things survive unexpectedly: an old but small cheapo teddy bear the typist had at 6 years old, remembered putting in the bin and has a photo of themselves with said bear is now just an arm's reach away right now, amazingly having avoided the bin again all the years amid clothing or something. Having spent 13 years buying back every record to keep a digital copy of it is a huge task & some records are remembered by emotion rather than song after 20 years. Not so hard for a collector, but as a dealer you hear many times more songs than any other type of music consumer. The search may be just a few noted titles, but buying 45s as we do, a forgotten one turns up more regularly than you'd think.
Collecting is a good thing for us humans, it grows passions in one beyond the normal and can only enrich your life with the objects, those you meet through collecting and hopefully making a profit along the way.
The most obvious effect of life today, beyond financial difficulties, is the Internet is making rare items not so rare & prices not what they used to be as more copies are around.
In the days of record lists & shops, the amount of records seen was much less & the rarity of items was based on the knowledge of then, and prices were pretty steady. Some prices we charged 10 years ago are still current, yet some we see on our old lists are annoyingly cheap knowing how they sell today. But as collectors sell up, some records we used to sell at good prices are now turning up too often on ebay for us to buy yet another copy & have it not sell. And some are great 45s we are fond of and it's sad to leave them behind then see them sell for insultingly low bids. Some non hit records are appearing to be as common as top 30 hits, it's a pity no top 75 was done instead of the smaller charts as it'd help. Some records may appear common as many turn up as the value of them tempts buyers to sell, the amount of Elvis HMV 45s you'll find is staggering compared to pre internet days, but finding the top grades is still hard. The amount of copies of "See Emily Play" is crazy. They all get called 'Rare' despite being a top 10 hit yet they are always wanted in nice grade. A glut of the rarest titles will still sell at good prices, but the amount of copies of some £200+ rated items you can find again & again is going to hit prices. But the genuinely rare is shown to be rarer still if it doesn't appear when most else does and you can't find even sold copy info on the internet. Collectors LOVE rare things and objects that stir a collector of 30 years buying still turn up. Genuinely rare & in collector grade in all fields of collecting is as popular as ever & will always be a good investment. Until younger buyers decide in 20 years they don't want or like it of course...
As a similar comparison, we know a few markets where much similar is going on.
Old Coins going back to 1662 when the first machine made coins were issued still are wanted, but more as cheap low grade coins or top grade museum quality, the decent mid grade stuff finds it hard to find a buyer at the midway prices. Coins have a problem of looking pretty similar beyond a number year change, so those who collect them may only collect one of each type. The Whitman coin folders, as we found out a while back, are there to nag you to fill them & after getting worn out pennies, for example, buying highest grade lustre ones to fill them is a really stupid idea! Whitman folders are there for kids to fill with cheap coins, note they never made a folder for pre 1911 half crowns or Gold Sovereigns! On first seeing these folders full of the 1902-1936 shillings, Victorian silver 3ds and 1860-1901 farthings as a pre-teen, they were the height of aspiration & a wonder to behold, but as an adult buying them back, it all seemed pointless as it was too easily got just to buy the whole sodding lot in one go rather than collect piece by piece and enjoy it properly. Victorian Bun pennies (1860-1894) were the favorite coins collectors wanted, but having to buy uncirculated lustre ones as collectors always have to improve & head into big money kind of puts buyers off who've made a nice set of detailed-grade coins. As a reminder of the folly of coin collecting and at one time having a set of unc/lustre pennies from 1880s to 1967 except the 1918-9 H/KN ones, we kept a box of Victorian Bun Pennies & made sure it was the full set including varieties, all loose together. Thankfully selling the high grade ones on was easy. As a young kid, our fairly worn but detailed 1863 penny found in the back of a cabinet had more wonder than a whole set of high grade ones.
Similarly with Books we like, ie Cartoon based Annuals going back to 1909 with the Playbox series. Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, Japhet & Happy, Pip Squeak & Wilfred, Billy & Bunny, Bobby Bear, Teddy Tail, Tiger Tim and other similar annuals like The Joy Book & Wonderland Annual. They are not nostalgia to us, we never heard of them before mostly and never saw the books when a kid & likely few Grandparents thought to pass them down as most new to the market are long-stored attic finds with dead bugs & food crumbs inside when they should really have been enjoyed by other generations. Keeps them in high grade though. Other books such as Billy Bunter from the 1930s & before were about upper-middle class schools & ripping yarns as you see on sketch shows. Not being of that age, it all seems unreadable in comparison to the Cartoon based annuals which are more classic Kids books, stories about talking animals & fantasy fairylands actually inspired the 1967 psych pop artists. Toby Twirl was a Rupert-like pig who has adventures; Bonzo the dog was hugely popular from the mid 1920s. His early books are interesting, but the 1947-52 series are aimed at under- tens & a bit cutesy. Most books we like are listed high on Book selling sites, but on ebay you can occasionally find lovely copies freshly found & for chip money prices. Being delighted at last finding the 1909 Playbox with "all 5 plates" & readily paying £60, then finding out the seller lied as it should be 6 plates on finding a high grade one on ebay for a tenner! We've read the book too & found it enjoyable in that psych whimsy kooky way these books appeal. Books like these can cost £100+ on the 1930s Mickey Mouse ones, yet most can be found under £20 which is the sort of price collecting is best at.
Vintage Furniture is finding it tough as much of it just looks too old fashioned & way out of place in today's Ikea-Habitat driven bland identikit minimalism. It's starting to change though as the recent BBC2 'Cracking Antiques' show tells us & the fact big department stores look like Antique shops with all the retro furniture. The trouble with Old Furniture is, well, it's old. It's been used by other people you never met. It feels dirty, trying to convince your Missus to put her smalls in an 18th Century chest of drawers is pointless. Those top drawers in a 18th C chest usually held a potty & years of evaporating human soup are soaked into the wood! And old wood risks splinters in your frillies! Old Furniture needs work and fully tidying up 95% of the time. But then it's all yours and you'll love it after giving it some TLC. Calling any furniture "Brown Furniture" is insulting the quality stuff with the majority of dull items. Buyers can find plain 17th Century tables amid brown furniture for low prices, these were once money items if having much originality. But you can bet anything of quality is being kept in hope of renewed interest. Think of music, anything good will come back even after decades of being ignored. If it was good it'll come round again is a safe bet, but be the one to look after it while it's unwanted. Up in the loft or in the garage or shed is where a lot of revived items lived for decades.
Ceramics is a huge part of collecting, Moorcroft, Clarice Cliff and even classy stuff like Worcester going back centuries is growing, falling & changing. Most ceramics we find exceedingly boring & pointless, though the real quality stuff stands out. The amount of mediocre Moorcroft & Clarice that makes prices on TV shows beyond it's mundaneness proves how gullible buyers just look at the name & think that makes it better.
China Cabinets were much wanted in the 80s & early 90s & people filled them with glossy china trinkets just to look at. Together with Bureau-Bookcases, a China Cabinet was the height of sophistication for those who indulged. Today it's all seen as twee & big tea sets etc are now of little value as they don't get used and likely never were. The classy stuff stands out a mile & is what cabinets are filled with today.
But the fun Woolworth's Homemaker B&W plates with tables & chairs on used to be seen as the height of naff for years, though the typist liked their kookiness even in the 80s when a plate was worth a princely 10p, recently made several hundred ££ for a big set as Dickinson's Real Deal showed. You also know you're old when those ghastly boat shaped bars, the most naff & laughed at items in the 80s, now sell for £200+.
Gold & Silver is
now mainly driven by the high scrap price. The amount that gets scrapped according to Dickinson's Real Deal & others suggests that the artifact itself sadly isn't being considered for the quality of what is. Not all deserve to be scrapped & future generations may regret the greed of today. But much is outdated & unremarkable jewelry or Grandad's old watch, of which millions exist that aren't collected as too ordinary. Scrapping items thins out the quality from the everyday. But if Gold & Silver rises higher & higher, the quality items will get melted too so be Careful. They even scrap high grade Edward VII & George V sovereigns, but these are the common ones minted by the million as bullion & apart from a tiny few variants they are only worth scrap. Anyone scrapping earlier ones is a fool though as they have collector value, or did once. So why not just scrap it and make a Vajazzle out of them for some Bimbo? Many low grade coins are worth more as scrap than as coins & future collectors who would collect cheap coins will miss out and not get to know old coins, so the Coin market will suffer. A worn out George III silver 5/- crown is nearly an ounce in weight which is about £22 scrap, just 5 years ago they were £10 coins. Some sellers don't understand how much scrap value is in coins, when Silver went to £9 an oz a few years ago, the bulk of pre 1920 silver we bought at £4 an oz we sold to one stupid "coin dealer" who then sold them off for under scrap value on ebay auctions starting all at 99p. They lost over half what they paid us for the lot & then they had seller fees.
BACK TO THE MUSIC
Good items in all types of collecting will always be wanted and appreciated, the prices will change over the coming years as those who appreciate the records for the Music & the Artists will naturally change. Some types of music are still very alive, mid-late 60s Rock is kept alive by Today's artists copying it. The 80s pop scene pre Live Aid is still sounding strong and again, today's artists are copying the styles. TV plays a big part, how great some songs sound played on a TV show like Ashes to Ashes, even ones you'd forgotten
Rock & Roll has gone through a Revival once again, after admitedly being pretty dead for the last 10-15 years, you can't keep good music down is the thing! Retro sounding artists appear to copy many music styles & all the buyer of retro artist has to do is find out who they copy & try the originals. R&R has been revived several times now, in 1968 after the Summer of Love bubble burst. In 1974 Bill Haley got a hit with 'Clock' again and there was an underground Rockabilly revival by bands like Crazy Cavan since the early 70s. Some of those early LPs pre 1976 are now big money despite the tracks being unadventurous and pretty unlistenable to today's buyer. March 1976 got 'Jungle Rock' to be a huge hit, an irresistable record that really took off. The Punks covered R&R songs, just look at the Sex Pistols. After some nice hits for Darts, Matchbox, Stray Cats & Polecats, by 1983 it was over. A jokey revival of 'Witch Doctor' made some quiffed jokers a hit and today you'll find a new artist who seems to be doing a lot of good for R&R: Imelda May with her Janis Martin quiff, if not quite her voice, doing well on the revival circuits, TV and Summer Festivals & she got a No 7 UK LP Chart hit in January 2011. Established revival bands such as Carlos & the Banditos do very well worldwide & you can find many lofi clips on YouTube, a powerful tool for spreading the word about music & someone's cat doing something dumb. Rock & Roll is the modern classical music as it just won't die. Exciting music doesn't. Play Gene Vincent's first 2 LPs and the Johnny Burnette Trio set to understand the raw energy is infectuous. No other music style has such energy.
Reggae is strong, with as much interest in the early Bluebeats full of great sounds as the rare but often pretty ordinary or samey UK 60s Coxsones despite the big prices. Much UK 60s Reggae is just not around to buy now, compared to what we had in our collection in 2000 before selling up. The market where any beat up 60s Reggae 45 with defaced labels, no centre and very crackly to play would still sell for at least a fiver has pretty much gone too as buyers generally want artifacts not just the music. The Ska records seem to be the most popular, the early R&B boogie shuffle 45s are always popular and appear to be growing as R&B grows in popularity, the JA sounds started by imitating the 1955-58 sound before it all faded into pop & soul. But you can find more common low grade tatty Bluebeats a bit too cheap now, simply as higher grades are findable when they didn't used to be around before. USA buyers, belatedly realising the rich R&B sound are picking up othe early Ja stuff. Rocksteady, the sweetest Reggae style has some huge money items amid the UK labels, but to be fair, these are rare items and nice musically but not anything new, too much sweetness gets bland. Of late, the classic sweet Rocksteady has eased off quite a bit on the middle priced items, seeing a £50 regular seller only do £12 on ebay for a nice copy is a pity. The real rare ones still make £££ though on hearing some, the music lover may prefer the wider-known tracks as these are the ones that led the way. Sadly due to ebay fake bidders, unaware dealers are now thinking these prices are real & putting stupidly high prices on items & never seeing any interest until reality hits. Of course, some stupid prices ARE for real, but we don't quite understand the "surreal" 70s-80s scene where a mediocre record of no real difference to the classics of the era can supposedly make several £100s. The hits, as in JA hits, not the few UK charters, are the best ones musically as with any genre to start with. Skin Reggae has eased off a bit due to the current times. Roots has always been a bit of a mystery to pale-face outsiders especially the 12"s as is the early dancehall where a seemingly ordinary record can hit big money despite being very like the hits of the era. The 70s reggae scene is more of a mixture of gems amid loads of samey-samey stuff and poppy junk, explaining why it's more hidden than the Ska era as it appeals less to the general buyer who isn't understanding what all the back to Africa Jah stuff Roots tunes are about. The Lovers scene in 1978-81 did appeal to UK buyers, based on the sweet soul of the mid 70s & some were chart hits.
Reggae is still around on new releases in a retro style, deservedly so as it keeps one of the best genres of music alive. And then there's our mate Rastamouse...
Doowop & Vocal Groups. Ten years ago, when buying 50s USA R&B-Doowop, we didn't care much for the sweet slow doowop unless a real classic. The jump tunes were the thing to buy despite there not being that much variety in the 45s overall beyond the classics as we found out. Doowop of the slow sweet variety is sadly now heading towards being as unfashionable as the MOR pop it broke away from. Slow tender ballads now sound too pop and dated sounding to many ears, which is unfortunate as these sounds actually led to the later pop. It needs a place in today for people to want it. Uptempo music is generally what buyers want & only a few slowies are considered in the same way. Seeing a certain UK 45 we used to sell fast at £60 in the 90s struggle at £10 is a bit sad. But it's a sweet doowop of the highest quality, but without it being uptempo, the doowop buyers of today aren't so interested. But we got annoyed at that & hyped it as it deserved a bit & shifted 2 NM copies fast at £35! It'd be interesting to see what the Pharoahs UK Decca EP would do today. £750-£1000 in 2006 may only be £400 today. We hear a USA buyer paid a heavy $3000 for his copy from GRT, a strange company in retrospect due to the huge prices paid where other dealers couldn't match. Phone bidding against Fresh Air is an opinion. Got us £1000 for a Beatles LP acetate, so it did get real sales. The Pharoahs is a great EP not sounding at all UK recorded with that Moonglows-Flamingos on Chance in 1953-54 quality. 2 tracks are uptempo and are great, the others are that tender slow type and pretty typical. Having bought the Ace 1980s reissue we can hear it with modern ears. Only the Southlanders Top Rank 45 comes near in quality for a UK Doowop. Oops we've mentioned that twice now, it's only a £6-er in the book guys...
1950s Pop. Traditional 50s pre R&R pop music and before will likely just die away as it is too old fashioned, but just as in books etc some categories are still enjoyed by modern buyers & stay alive. Only the real classics or some clever choice for a film will keep the pre R&R era alive. 'There may be Trouble Ahead... Jazz EPs have been unwanted for decades as they are too short for LP buyers to care about, although a tiny market for the UK Jazz ones matching the similar LPs apparently exists, though the prices we don't see being met. Jazz EPs & LPs actually are great mini artworks, with one London dealer making posters from the artwork & selling many. Jazz doesn't really belong on 7" really unless it's a classic hit or a jazz styled pop or R&B. The USA Blue Note LPs especially the rare early 10" ones are much wanted, though the mid 50s 7" for jukeboxes mostly are unsellable for a fiver. Certain 'square' artists like Perry Como, Dean Martin, Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra etc etc have some great tracks amid their big repertoires, so the uptempo lively tracks will live on as 'new classical', but the dreary polite ones will deservedly fade away, as did most of the pre-war pop that no-one remembers apart from Glenn Miller. But when you have pure class like NKK 'When I Fall In Love' it goes beyond it's supposed 'dreary polite' leanings. TV ads, TV shows, Films & cover versions keep the old songs alive. How many songs pre 1920 are known by people today? Look thru the USA pre 1954 chart book, most of it is forgotten except ones like 'Daisy Bell (Bicycle made for two)', 'Pack up your Troubles in your Old Kit Bag' & the USA Marching Band songs. The early 45s pre 1956 are still popular, Golds & thick Tris of otherwise dull artists still sell due to how rare they are & they are very attractive visually. After 1957 the 45s aren't so rare or wanted & this is when some records take up residency on our site never going to move! But thankfully, amid this era are many lively danceable tracks that live on as Popcorn or R&B even, so even B sides of pop ballads may hit a lively height & surprise you, just like God does...
(Ha!)
1970 onwards Rock & Pop. Some types of music have been left behind deservedly ignored & unwanted, there are few buyers for pop 45s from the 1970s beyond what turns out to be a Mod, Psych or Glam dancer of some sort that appeals to the 60s buyer. Most 70s Rock-Pop deservedly has a reputation as being "crap". We used to buy lots of 70s & found a lot of goodies amid the merde. There are some great 45s that will go on to be established collector records, but a lot of these ones making £50-£100+ we can see are pretty average really. A few obsessive buyers must have these records & pay big after it appears on some bootleg LP of equal unimportance. But will that record continue to be wanted after then? When there are far better ways to spend your money than on some weak 70s record with a 'few good bits' amid the crap, it's not going to endure. Record Collector for the first time in many years finally got the Glam records established, but they were always bubbling around & getting on comps. A lot of these Glam Rock Psych Mod type records we do not see as standing the test of time as collectables, simply as they are not of the quality of the 60s stuff. Some are, most aren't. Time will tell. Hard guitar riffs but bubblegum crappy lyrics do not look too appealing to us. Having played all our stock, the majority of Glam records did not appeal to the typist's ears much, the pop crassness of them irked somewhat. Only time will weed out the better ones. Who knows what buyers will search for in 20 years? Early 1990s indie 45s perhaps?
Early Beatles? Even the Beatles cute 1963 era beat pop could go the same way, as a survey of kids recently showed they liked the Psych era stuff better than the catchy-but-dumb yeah yeah stuff, simply as the psych stuff sounded more contemporary. Music of old is cherry picked by newer buyers only for what sounds good to them. "We" picked out the goodies from 1950s & 1960s now the next generation may hate some of what we loved! The 2009 'Times' Article reporter played some Beatles tracks to a group of 6-8 year olds. 'She Loves You' and 'Help' were liked, but they didn't inspire the kids or hold their attention much. Later tracks like 'Norwegian Wood' and 'Eleanor Rigby' are more like modern music and these caught their imagination as they liked the stories & emotions in the song. 'Helter Skelter' made the kids go psycho a bit & 'Hey Jude' was seen to be a bit boring until the façile 'Na Na' bit brought it alive. Music is about emotion and music with a rawness or passion is the stuff that will live on. Ghastly manufactured poop by that Cowell git has already proved to be disposable until the next comes along. Celebrity type singing dancing shows have no substance & only substance equals longevity. Crap mass market lazy entertainment brings in huge easy money though. That's why Duran Duran seem pretty good to some now, though only girls admitted to liking them in the 80s, us guys hated it all, or at we least had to say we did, but actually liking their few early hits...
The Beatles themselves aren't overall quite as hot as the time when RC put the 45s to OTT prices as there were anniversaries going on as well as new releases. The UK Beatles catalog is much sought after in NM or better, the LP market especially. The 45s & EPs sold in enormous quantities and are therefore easier to find. Top grade 45s with crisp labels sell well as most labels got play marks even if the vinyl is still Mint, even NM ones don't sell faster than any other hits. EPs & LPs have card covers to easily damage so NM covers are hard to find, Mint ones are barely existent. But as pricing sites will show, insane prices are allegedly paid for, eg low Number White Albums, but the reality when you sell one without all the "nonsense" lets you know those prices are just fantasy & dangerous to be quoting.
Psych is one we've not added here before, but as time goes on the 60s-early 70s Counterculture-Underground scene is becoming more popular. Just look at Windows 7 new Wallpapers! Very Trippy, man. As the Beatles section above shows, the later Psych Beatles era appealed to young kids more & odds are they'll hit these when they go to i-tunes to get their first Beatles tracks, not the cute pop ones or the later post 68 stuff. We know the UK Psych 45s well & have had most of the current biggies. But not so many recently & generally these 45s aren't around now, as they were poor sellers on release & are now owned by Collectors who bought them since, rather than the original buyers. They might not be around again for a few decades. Only the "Late Discoveries" turn up with some regularity, the Calum Bryce on Conder & Mike Stuart Span on Jewel are often found at a similar price & do turn up again. But the longer established ones are now tucked away in collections. If 500 were pressed, 127 sold & the rest got "returned" 127 buyers of a great 45 will be found quickly & then there'll be none. Finding an unopened box of a rare 45 might dip the market if they are released too fast, but it will always recover unless the record was only a 1-3 copies known one.
Soul-Northern-Funk. The whole soul scene is ailing at present due to the economy and the fact most Soul buyers are in that volatile area where boom they spend, bust they sell up. The amount of Red & White TMG demos on ebay is crazy, these are very rare items in reality. But your soul buyer is currently finding it tough & is selling up to survive. He'll want them back again soon as he loves these old tunes as they are part of his life & soul though & the ones offered are still snapped up at good prices. Another 'Hit Pack' demo anyone? Not another Barbara McNair!! Funk 45s are a strange scene. One we had used to regularly sell at £150, but sat unsold at £50 for ages. Most Funk is highly rated by the clique but mostly doesn't make anything like the money the similarly rated Northern 45s do as it's much more a secret scene used likely for cutting out breaks & riffs to sample with & mix some pointless tuneless racket out of for da yoof of today. The "Amen Brother" break et al. Beyond us... Funk purists strangely like the Part 2 side instrumental rather than the vocal side of a classic like Funky Nassau. Some funk is mindnumbily boring, but that's what today's Drum & Bass is.
The problem with the Soul scene as of the last decade is revealing is there is SO MUCH really great music, more quality soul is out there than reggae or psych etc. So many obscure & great 45s mean anything a bit mediocre & frankly, there is a LOT of it, is getting passed by when you can buy better tunes. Another ordinary midtempo USA soul 45, zzz. This is especially true of the 1968-77 era where 'soul' records of no musical worth were churned out, together with those that have established themselves as classics, in the thousands a year hoping for a hit. Only years later, music buyers are picking up eg Ron Keith on A&M, after playing the crap A side but loving the class B side. All those commercial sing-a-long boogie bump funk records are as wanted as a turd in the bed, yet having played through thousands of the buggers, even some mediocre ones end up making big ££ for some DJ hyped (if only briefly). Remember the crappy Futures 'Party Time Man' when their other earlier 45s are way better? Someone had a few unopened boxes full is why. The ones with a clear quality solo vocal with a hint of 60s in there are the ones to watch as they will get there one day...
Rare 1950s UK 45s. Much high grade 1950s Rare stuff is around again now too, again due to collections selling up, but not by the owners, time has beaten them on that one! There are still good buyers for this wonderful 50s stuff, though the inflated RC prices are going to create unsellable items until they get priced to today's market. Popsike again shows the real prices records are making. See several copies make a similar price & that's the current price. Ignore the mad prices paid once, they may not even be genuine. You still see dreamers with records you'd like to buy, but at the real prices of today, but try convincing them their Silhouettes Get A Job 45 only sells for about £40 in EX when theirs is £80. As we state below, pricing your records by Popsike alone is a dangerous game & everyone prices their VG at Mint prices too. Record Collector has foolishly based it's 1950s prices on one Weak Dealer, which is making people think these lovely records are worth inflated prices. As dealers, we've stayed away from the £100+ 50s stuff for years after getting stung on the low prices after buying assuming the high prices were right. They actually were right for just a short period in about 1998-2002 when records were at their peak, as many collectables were. For RC to still state them and even more stupidly increase them is irresponsible! But as with coins, price by Spink or for stamps price by Stanley Gibbons & you'll not sell a thing! If priced right & in nice grade with clean labels & importantly centres, the 50s market is still going strong. But once you get no centres & label damage the price drops spectacularly as these incomplete items are not what the buyer wants, unless extra rare or extra cheap.
Popcorn & Teen. Having heard so much of the whole spectrum of music from 1947-1983, the one lacking era was the once mostly hated Teen Pop scene from 1959 to pre Beatles 1963. How foolish we were ignoring these until recently! We used to get wants lists of 45s from this era from European buyers, and we'd heard of hardly any of them! No doubt we've had most of them now after searching them out or gambling on a blind buy. Much has the early soul style backings that get called 'Popcorn' by UK buyers, if not really relating it to the Belgian Popcorn scene, which covers anything danceable 1953-late 1960s. We called Popcorn the kooky danceable teen pop as well as the transitional pre Soul era danceable 45s, these get called R&B. R&B-Popcorn scene can have little to do with real Soul, as the Northern scene did in it's early days. A pop record like 'Super Girl' by Graham Bonney was once called a Northern Soul record, but today, no Soul DJ would dare play such a thing. Fortunately it's not over for that enjoyable 45, 'Hey Hey', as that sort of danceable soul pop beat is now rebranded as being part of the Mod Scene. Even 1950s Mambo and Cha-Cha & Frankie Laine type uptempo music can be called Popcorn if it has that ear-catching dancey sound. Play some of our Soundfiles of those in the Teen & R&B sections to understand the sound.
Some Teen is just standard Teen Pop & can be too sugary, but when the inventive lively backing comes in, then these are the wanted tracks & by unlikely artists too.
Mod Dancers. We used to call a lot of 45s 'Mod Dancer' simply because they were the 'New Breed' Mod beat R&B dancers. But no more, as it's got too general a term. See the Info page for more. Some of what is making big money in "Mod" used to be worthless crap and frankly still is crap. £150 for Shades of Morely Brown anyone? The B side is the one they buy it for, though your £150 could buy several really great 45s not this piece of toss that was unwanted at £5 not so long ago! In reality, Mods will dance to many styles, ironically even tracks that were once called Rock & Roll, have they forgotten that Beach in 1964? A lot of Psych Pop is Whimsy Pop at best, but we like it. Mod like Psych is a much overused term, but if it sells, whatever. It's coming to the point that "Mod" & even "Northern" to some degree is as meaningless as "Rare" as it has become over-used & too broad. Really we'd like to be saying BEAT DANCER or SOUL DANCER to be more specific, perhaps adding in SLOWIE and MIDTEMPO. Our current categories reflect these thoughts. And that meant playing every record again! Even some 50s records are Mod Dancers as well as being R&B Rockers to a different crowd, so what do you do? The early 1990s silly made-up word 'Freakbeat' we don't use now. It meant originally the pop-art beat rockers the Who & similar made, but it got weakened to the point of meaningless as any pop record with a psych tinge got called it.
Punk, New Wave & Synth. There are not many records making over £5 in this scene as so many of the good songs were actually hits. The 1977-80 non-hit indie singles that are interesting today are still relatively cheap due to the scene being in it's early days, or maybe it's gone as far as it will? Those that are beyond the hits and the established collectables are mostly of minimal appeal today & having played thru many, well... Even the big hits are hard to find as NM/M, you won't find Mint sleeves due to how they were stored, ie not in a plastic cover & the record sleeve with it's top opening inviting dust resulting in gritty records. Those who did put the covers carefully in PVC sleeves now have cloudy and hissy vinyl due to the harsh PVC reacting with vinyl over the years. It takes about 10 years to do this and with no air circulating, the records get very smelly & react badly. If you are interested in this era, pick up the high grades while you can as demand is pretty weak currently. Unlike earlier 45s in plain sleeves, this era due to the sleeve problems will be harder to find in high grade. Assuming interest grows naturally. Currently it's way way behind the main 50s & 60s scenes.
There is an offshoot of Punk that you see KBD (Killed By Death) on ebay a lot. These are usually European Punk type records with groups sometimes with daft names, 'The Tits' anyone? There are a good amount of ultra obscure UK Punk 45s, many so rare RC never used to list them that make big money. This was the last ever era of experimentation in Rock music, there are some amazing records out there in hits & rarities & we do not use 'amazing' lightly. Whether these sort of records would get openly played in Clubs like other types is only how they will get better known, though how you'd dance to Lockjaw's 'Journalist Jive' on Raw would be interesting.
Slower Music isn't so popular now. Gushy ballads & thoughtful "tactile" pop are regularly shown on TV & the popular music marketplace today (not a very discerning one) laps them up, gets bored with them fast & in days of old clutter up junk shops with them. Nowadays it's a MP3 to joyfully delete into oblivion. These undiscerning music buyers don't buy Vintage Vinyl, so their taste is invalid for evaluating what sells in the Collectors' Record market.
A lot of slow tracks on B sides, especially after 1969 are mindnumbingly boring & offer nothing to catch the ear. Why they made such nothingness is a mystery beyond lazily filling a B side with a dud track the DJs wouldn't play instead of the chosen side, like Spector did with his throwaway B sides. In the late 60s, slow pop records were still being hits, some Top 10 hits are really awful to modern ears, but sold huge at the time. The Granny market in the 1960s was huge as these 1930s-50s pop type records were what they liked & having seen collections of the most dull music ever, they at least made ££ to cover the losses on the music that is more liked today. The Bachelors polite balladeering helped subsidise the rowdy Birds & all the other Decca non-sellers, so good on the dull safe groups really, if not to play them! Oddly slow tracks that are now Soul Classics weren't bought by the same buyers, and it's unlikely you'll find a 'Drifter' amid them sadly.
To us, some slower records in all styles that have been long-time favourites surprisingly don't quite hit the mark anymore. Times change and perhaps a lack of patience with slow music is due to our short attention span today? Some artists of the highest quality don't generally sell as well as they used to as they made many slower tracks, like Ben E King, Jack Scott and Garnett Mimms. There is top quality music in their slower tracks & they need to be seen apart from average slow music before it's too late.
PRICING FOR THE FUTURE ANTICIPATED DEMAND OF A RECORD?
As record dealers, some records stay in stock for years, be they rare unknowns or common but in high grade. We put a date we added an item & have data going back several years. Some ones we rate as future biggies we don't mind keeping for the years it takes the market to awaken to them. We price them to what we see their potential is based on years of getting it right. Many records we sold in the 1990s via our bi-monthly printed lists set the prices that are still around today. By that, a record could be seen as a £4 one for years by general dealers not into the music. It finally gets 'discovered' and makes £80. More copies come out & £80 stays the price. It might not go up further due to changes in collecting.
Some records are easy to predict they will sell fast & priced knowing that gets prices rising. If it sold 'too fast' last time (as in our set sale listings) it was likely too cheap! It can be amusing watching some mercenary dealers not into the music pick our unknown 'money' tunes that are still pretty unknown & ebay-auction them for a pittance. These dealers are missing the point: the records need to 'grow' & the sharp buyer of theirs for that pittance will have heard about it from our site so knows the music is good. Let their buyer smirk at their bargain compared to our price (though they must believe in it to buy at any price) & get the record known for the good of collecting so we can sell it at our price (or more) in the future!
Seeing what ebayers pay for a record is less useful than you'd think as silly bidding & even fake shill bidding can give wrong prices. Often a common record can sell for £10+ with other copies available as Buy It Now for £5 in better grade if people bothered to look. A record when first listed by us might get priced high if exceptional grade or one that the price may be stronger on in the future. If it sells, we're right & if not it'll sit until we do our repricing, we may think it was too low as too high on repricing, or it may stay the same price for ages as we see the potential.
Established dealers usually have a good range of nice grade cheaper stock but sadly these cheaper items that aren't much wanted today even in top grade. Our £5 and under sections have some great 45s in high grade for little money, but the buyer today doesn't so much want a full collection or a label run, but likes to pick & choose a lot more than the buyers of old, who naturally paid a lot less than £5 each for their records and kept a lot more. The days of having a Pound box full of interesting tunes is what we all want, but aren't going to see again! We've tried £2 sections to an uninterested public on our site so just thinned out the weaker items & gave them to a carbooter. And then found amusement at seeing some on ebay later for £4.00 when we couldn't sell it at any price in years.
That secondhand general record buyer since the 1980s isn't buying records secondhand as his main format now, it's collectors who are buying records & they want high grades or genuinely rare. Putting 'rare' on every ebay listing makes no difference to prices or sales. Having it to listen to does. Seeing a 'Swinging Monk' 45 make a ridiculous £80 as the seller put an MP3 to hear proves this in a quite extreme way. An £8 record everywhere else as it's a naff but mod sounding dancer, but it's rare & we hope the buyer liked it. Seeing another copy do £50 makes you wonder, people must be desperate for new tracks. We'd put £50 on a copy if we had one, if feeling uneasy, the market dictates.
WHAT ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY BUYING?
The Record a Collector buys to keep as their Own Copy is the best one they can buy for the money they want to spend. Buyers don't always expect the Mint one, or the Gold London (not with us explaining it now, eh?) or even the Tri one.
On 60s records the Typeface Variants or Contract Pressings on non Beatles records are bought equally with the standard one. What DOES MATTER is a clean label & high grade vinyl that plays as good as it looks or better. Variations DO NOT GENERALLY MATTER beyond the long-established differences.
Some may prefer Demos or hate Demos & only want the "Shop-Bought" item. Some may prefer a certain typeface as it was the 1st copy they had & want as near as they can get. Some may consider an Acetate the thing they want even if it's the released version.
There are still a minority, certainly a fraction of those 20 years ago, who don't give a toss & just buy a scratchy but OK record & play it on a cheap player & are happy with that. Some will accept no centre or label damage on items from all styles & price ranges if priced right, but you'll be certain they'll still look for a better one. Generally a Top 40 Chart Hit record worth £10 in Mint is not worth more than 25p as a VG or with NOC or label damage, however much guides & dealers try to sell them at. A rare 45 only still a £10 item might still be worth £5-8 as VG as it's so hard to find. Demand & supply.
No realistic person buys a NM and still looks for a MINT. Ultimate upgrading on cheaper records today isn't really done. Older collectors still have VG copies that sound good enough & don't care enough to pay premium prices for a Mint one. Newer buyers can choose the high grade ones & never bother again to upgrade.
If some 1-in-a-billion cloud-dwelling type cares about having every stamper code edition of a common record, then who are we to criticise? Anyone who buys records for whatever reason is allowed, thank you. Buy them to nail to your shed or make flowerpots of if it's what you want them for.
One day maybe not too far away the price of vinyl will exceed the low value of most records & like Gold & Silver today items will be sold as scrap has more value! Vinyl is Oil based & Oil will run out as will any plastic & only recycling will bring it out. You look at Silver £4/oz a few years ago, but now soared up to £22/oz (June 2011). The current base line price for any 45 is 25p & likely 50p-£1 for an LP, just like 1980s charity shop prices. It's what a general bulk lot on ebay may make even if graded & listed fully. If plastic scrap of a certain type can be easily recycled it'll soar in value. You heard it here first. Remember our page about this in 75 years. ok?
RECORDS ARE BECOMING MORE LIKE MEMORABILIA THAN A THING TO PLAY FOR THE MUSIC.
It's probably to be expected as today's buyers of music are hooked on that I-Pod thing, it's small easy & go everywhere and easy to drop on the pavement & smash, that those going into buying vintage records aren't necessarily going to be playing them for the music as older buyers did & still do. Oh, the price of aquality new stylus or cartridge! Not much change out of £150 for what was £50 10 years ago! Playing records is great though don't forget. For as long as it is spinning on your turntable and plays the tune you can be entranced by it unlike any CD or Virtual track can.
The LP artwork being an obvious interest & where ridiculous prices are being paid on ebay, way beyond what Record Buyers would pay, but these buyers are not Record Buyers, they are the new breed of "Artifact" buyer. 45s lack the covers except on EPs, but people are framing old 45s with photos & autographs. Unless you spend £50 on a decent mount & frame it'll look crap just a record in a frame. Do it professionally via an art/photo type shop & it looks so much better.
The buyer of 45s is now either a traditional type of collector who wants to play his records as well as admire them, the DJ looking to play the records in clubs, or even production companies looking for records for TV & Film, such as all the 45s used on the 'Only Fools & Horses' prequel 'Rock & Chips' in 2010 stuffed in repro sleeves, ha! The average man on the street does not buy 45s like they did in the 1980s when vinyl was still the main format so today the cheap end of vinyl is pretty unsellable. This started with the glut of big selling LPs offloaded in the early 1990s as CDs replaced the vinyl. 20 years later these same LPs are supposedly selling (if ebay auctions are to be believed) for very high prices if in high grade. Mc Cartney Lps for £300 anyone.
There is a seller on ebay selling made-up Gold discs of the popular artists from then to now. You buy them and frame them to put on the wall & be amazed and lost in a awestruck trance at their fake tacky beauty. At £25 a pop he's raking it in! But the labels he uses are awful, wrong types, wrong everything. It does show non-Collectors want records as Memorabilia and this is a cheap way to buy a Gold Disc we suppose.
Today, the typist keeps digitised versions of many tracks from the original vinyl on hard drives, the days of recording CDs & playing them are now gone. CDs & Digital doesn't sound bad, it's the poor mastering that sounds bad. To play music in the car, it's MP3 versions of the same on some storage system. The disc is not used for playing music anymore.
The 1960s Cartoon 'The Jetsons' (in the 80s revival!) showed a futuristic computer screen with all music & films at your fingertips if you wanted it. That is no longer fantasy as the Computer, the TV & the Hifi rapidly become one. But recently, for us to have just a few records began to appeal after finally getting one old-time want years later. To keep some records is a thing you should not deny yourself if you collected records at some time.
Some records you will find you actually really love both for article itself, the emotional links to happy times had with it playing and the music itself.
No CD or MP3 you can't even see has that appeal.
Long live Records!
